A. This needs to be your choice. So, consider several points as
you decide. Be
sure Dad is involved. Do this whether he is fulfilling his role as spiritual
leader of the
home or not. If he is, he could well be the one to take full responsibility
for
accountability, devotional times related to the verse of the week, and also
look for
opportunities to teach by example or word. Home schooling fathers often wish
there
was more they could do. Imagine if all Dad did was the above three things for
12 years
(5-17 years old)? What a touch for eternity! If Dad isn't the spiritual
leader, asking him
is still right and respectful. He may say he doesn't care, but at least he
feels loved. If
he's not a believer, he can still ask the kids to say their verse once a week
and sign
them off.
B. Select a version you feel would be the best for your family
for
at least 12
years. That's how long the MEMLOK takes to complete if you do one card a
week..
PS. It isn't necessary to memorize in the version you are currently
reading. Note
the word "currently". If you changed memory "versions" every time you started
to read
another version, it could stop you in your tracks regarding Scripture
memory.
PS. Don't try to re memorize verses you've done in one translation again
in another one. It will drive you crazy. Instead, focus on meditation and
application.
C. If a teenager will be using it, strongly consider their
input. Motivation is key at this age. If you are firm about what you want,
but they would dislike it "majorly",
consider spending $30 more and getting the Second Set for them.
D. Here's a quick summary (not very scientific) of the four
versions.
The King James Version uses thee's, doeth, goeth and basically
1600's
language as they talked
during King Jame's times. The bad thing about the King James Version is that
you have
to explain some passages and words. The good thing about the King James
Version
is
that you have to explain some passages and words. Ahem. Yes, it has a poetic
nature
and is "different" than we speak, so possibly easier to memorize. In addition,
however,
perhaps quoting verses that way isn't the greatest. Then again maybe it is!
If
you
paraphrase the KJV in conversation, it doesn't help the ever helpful principle
of
memorizing & reviewing "word perfect". If you are of the persuasion the
authorized King
James Version is the only Word of God, I'm happy I have made it available for
you.
About 1/3 of the 700 verses in MEMLOK that I memorized are in KJV, the rest in
NASB
as it was the version newest when I trusted Christ in 1964. I won't be
responding to the
occasional "pitch" that I should sell only one. God has seen fit to bless
Christendom
with choices. Go with your conviction and enjoy God's Word.
The New American Standard Version is generally regarded as adhering
most
stringently to the original texts (and most recently discovered scrolls).
Since
the text in
Greek is sometimes not in the same order as we speak in English, the NASB can
sometimes be just a bit wordy and awkward. It does (until the NASB95) retain
Thees
and Thous when God is addressed. (John 17) Used by my pastor of 15 years, Dr.
Charles Swindoll from the pulpit; Dr. John MacArthur and Kay Arthur of
Precept
Ministries for a point of reference - if you've ever heard of any of these
servants
The New International Version is purchased by about 48% of believers
(same
goes for Bible purchases nationally). It's interesting that MEMLOKs purchased
percentages and Bibles purchased percentages are the same. My conclusion: no
one
"version-preference-type person" is more into Scripture Memory, whatever that
means!
The NIV is most popular for three reasons. It is in simple language, most like
we speak
today; it is trustworthy; and it is promoted more effectively than any other
Bible.
The New King James Version is just that. If you've memorized verses
in the
King James and substituted You for Thee and Thou, you'll like the NKJV. Even
the
word ordering is very similar except "archaic" words have been replaced by
words we
use today in places where the word has the same connotations.
Finally, all four versions available are considered
"translations", not paraphrases
as is the popular & helpful Living Bible. So, if it is a hard decision, go
with your main
impulse after prayer.
Amy, this isn't by any means exhaustive, but at least you have a bit more
input
to consider. "Where there is a multitude of counselors, there is victory."
Proverbs 11:14
Warmly, Drake
At 5/12/98 03:04 PM, you wrote:
>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
>version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Free Brochure
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
--=====================_40195356==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Amy,
These are my thoughts on that subject...one man's opinion, and that's
all. This is cut & pasted from my Frequently Asked Questions page at
http://www.memlok.com/faq.htm
if you would rather read it without the webpage coding. Sorry bout that. Leaving
town for 5 days and trying to hurry.
1. Which
; <a name="anchor_1">version</a> would you
recommend?</FONT></B>
<font size = "2" face = "arial">
<BR>
<B>A.</B> <B>This needs to be your choice.</B> So,
consider several points as you decide. Be
sure Dad is involved. Do this whether he is fulfilling his role as spiritual
leader of the
home or not. If he is, he could well be the one to take full responsibility for
accountability, devotional times related to the verse of the week, and also look
for
opportunities to teach by example or word. Home schooling fathers often wish
there
was more they could do. Imagine if all Dad did was the above three things for 12
years
(5-17 years old)? What a touch for eternity! If Dad isn't the spiritual
leader, asking him
is still right and respectful. He may say he doesn't care, but at least he feels
loved. If
he's not a believer, he can still ask the kids to say their verse once a week
and sign
them off.<BR>
<p><B>B.</B> <B>Select a version you feel would be the
best for your family for at least 12
years.</B> That's how long the MEMLOK takes to complete if you do one card
a week..<BR>
<p><B>PS. It isn't necessary to memorize in the version you are
currently reading.</B> Note
the word "currently". If you changed memory "versions" every
time you started to read
another version, it could stop you in your tracks regarding Scripture
memory.<BR>
<p><B>PS. Don't try to re memorize verses you've done in one
translation again in another one.</B> It will drive you crazy. Instead,
focus on meditation and application.<BR>
<p><B>C.</B> <B>If a teenager will be using it,
strongly consider their input.</B> Motivation is key at this age. If you
are firm about what you want, but they would dislike it "majorly",
consider spending $30 more and getting the Second Set for them. <BR>
<p><B>D. Here's a quick summary (not very scientific) of the
four versions.</B><BR>
<p>The<B> King James Version</B> uses thee's, doeth, goeth and
basically 1600's language as they talked
during King Jame's times. The bad thing about the King James Version is that you
have
to explain some passages and words. The good thing about the King James Version
is
that you have to explain some passages and words. Ahem. Yes, it has a
poetic nature
and is "different" than we speak, so possibly easier to memorize. In
addition, however,
perhaps quoting verses that way isn't the greatest. Then again maybe it
is! If you
paraphrase the KJV in conversation, it doesn't help the ever helpful principle
of
memorizing & reviewing "word perfect". If you are of the
persuasion the authorized King
James Version is the only Word of God, I'm happy I have made it available for
you.
About 1/3 of the 700 verses in MEMLOK that I memorized are in KJV, the rest in
NASB
as it was the version newest when I trusted Christ in 1964. I won't be
responding to the
occasional "pitch" that I should sell only one. God has seen fit to
bless Christendom
with choices. Go with your conviction and enjoy God's Word.<BR>
<p>The <B>New American Standard Version</B> is generally
regarded as adhering most
stringently to the original texts (and most recently discovered scrolls). Since
the text in
Greek is sometimes not in the same order as we speak in English, the NASB can
sometimes be just a bit wordy and awkward. It does (until the NASB95) retain
Thees
and Thous when God is addressed. (John 17) Used by my pastor of 15 years, Dr.
Charles Swindoll from the pulpit; Dr. John MacArthur and Kay Arthur of Precept
Ministries for a point of reference - if you've ever heard of any of these
servants<BR>
<p>The <B>New International Version</B> is purchased by about
48% of believers (same
goes for Bible purchases nationally). It's interesting that MEMLOKs purchased
percentages and Bibles purchased percentages are the same. My conclusion: no one
"version-preference-type person" is more into Scripture Memory,
whatever that means!
The NIV is most popular for three reasons. It is in simple language, most like
we speak
today; it is trustworthy; and it is promoted more effectively than any other
Bible.<BR>
<p>The <B>New King James Version</B> is just that. If you've
memorized verses in the
King James and substituted You for Thee and Thou, you'll like the NKJV. Even the
word ordering is very similar except "archaic" words have been
replaced by words we
use today in places where the word has the same connotations.<BR>
<p><B>Finally</B>,<B> all four versions available are
considered "translations", not paraphrases </B>
as is the popular & helpful Living Bible. So, if it is a hard
decision, go with your main
impulse after prayer.
Amy, this isn't by any means exhaustive, but at least you have a bit more input
to consider. "Where there is a multitude of counselors, there is
victory." Proverbs 11:14
Warmly, Drake
At 5/12/98 03:04 PM, you wrote:
>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me.
Any
>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
>version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?)
Thanks, Amy
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
--=====================_40195356==_.ALT--
===============================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:44:28 -0700
Subject: Re: translation question
From: "J. R. Hasson"
Hey, God Bless Everyone!
God is Good!
I have been a member of this list since way before Christmas, and just haven't
brought myself to contribute until now. But I'd like to make a point here.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am open to suggestion.
Does it matter if you buy a Camaro, Firebird, Dodge, Lada, Volkswagen as long as
it gets you from point A to point B which is generally what it was meant to do.?
Same thing with Bibles, yes you have your Good News Bible, your NIV, KJV, NASV,
NLV, in french, english, spanish, portugiese, hebrew, . . . Everyone has
something that is going to work for them. Now the message is the same in each
of these versions/types isn't it. It is just saying it in a different way.
Now, I feel I'm right to caution anyone from getting too caught up in figuring
out which one is the real mckoy, because if your doing that you're missing the
entire point, which is to grow in a relationship with God, by His Word.
I feel I am on the same street as others out there, if not please let me know.
Yours In Christ,
J.R.
>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
>version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at
http://www.eudoramail.com
===============================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:08:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: new member
From: Joel Peter Anderson
Hello! I'm a new member as well, and a big advocate of scripture memory.
My mainstay (I'd guess true for many) is the TMS system from the
Navigator's. For people starting out I'd really encourage them to look at
that - it has provided me with (for 25+years) a great "index system" to
use in searching and reflecting on God's word.
I used KJV way back when, and have found it "stuck" very well (I think the
"odd" sound of the language made it easier to hang onto; and despite the
deficiences of the KJV as a translation, it is still a great resource
because of the broad range of resources linked to it, like Strong's
concordance and others). [Note - computers are fine, but never
underestimate the printed word - a copy of Strong's Concordance shouldn't
cost you more than $20, and gives you access to Greek and Hebrew
vocabulary. You don't need a hard drive either - just the drive to study
the Word!]
I've used other translations over the years with varying a result.
Usually the more contemporary a translation is, I've found it harder to
achieve word-perfect results. OTOH a loose translation, like the Living
Bible, or my current favorite the New Living Translation, often carrys
more of the context getting more bang for the buck in memorizing single
verses or short passages.
** joel anderson * joelants.umn.edu * mrklingonhotmail.com **
**** Hegh tI, 'ej ngab tI naH, 'ach reH taHtaH joH'a'ma' mu'****
**"The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our **
** God stands forever." Isaiah 40.8 NLT** http://umn.edu/~joela **
**http://members.aol.com/JPKlingon/uta: The Universal Translator**
===============================================================================
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 18:05
Subject: RE: translation question
From: "McGuire, Morris E"
Amy,
You should get all kinds of answers to your question. I'm one of
those whose spiritual gift is "prophecy" so I like to read all of the
different translations I can get my hands on. While the NAS (New American
Standard) is the closest in translation to the original languages and I use
it frequently I have recently come across the "New Living Translation" which
is a translation not a paraphrase and its text is the same language you and
I use everyday. I believe it's the choice for me for future memorizing. I
have already memorized about 2 to 3hundred in the KJV version but want to
convey to people that I talk to the promises and teachings of God with no
misunderstanding with "thees" and "thous".
I know that we put a lot of emphasis in the actual memorizing of
scripture and I do not disagree with that exercise. But 1Cor 13 says that
"though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love, I
am nothing." Our love relationship with our Lord Jesus is the most
important aspect of our Christian life. John 5:39-40 NAS
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have
eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 10:10
"Jesus came that we would have life and have it in abundance."
Once this "Life" is alive and active in us then you and I have the
responsibility ( our response to His ability ) to put the Lord Jesus on
display to a dark and lost world. Thus the "sermon on the mount" etc... We
can't do those things in and of ourselves but "We can't He never said we
could He can and He always said He would. paraphrase of Phil 2:13. God
is at work in us. He knows what we need and when so let Him have control
and "fret not".
Sorry to be so lengthy but I want us all to be sure to focus on "The Living
Word" Who is spoken of in "The Written Word"
Later,
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy O'Leary [mailto:olearysyahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 18:05
To: biblememoryMyList.net
Subject: translation question
It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
===============================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:50:40 -0400
Subject: Re: translation question
From: Scott Groppenbecker
Dear Amy,
It really depends on what you want. Yes, the KJV is a good
translation according to lit. standards, but if you truly want something
that you can really take to heart and let others understand a little
better, go with the NIV. I'm not putting down the KJV, but in some
places there are phrases, and sometimes paragraphs that we couldn't
understand. As far as the LB (if that's the Living Bible), once
again, a good translation, but I don't think that you want to memorize a
paraphrased Bible.
Just my thoughts :o)
At 03:04 PM 5/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes.
We have
>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure
in
>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV
has been
>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests
me. Any
>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a
particular
>version? (Is this an allowable question for this
group?) Thanks, Amy
Scott Groppenbecker
netkidgoodnews.net
Cross Net --
http://w3.goodnews.net/~netkid/
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of
love and of self-discipline.
-- 2 Timothy 4:7
===============================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: translation question
From: "Amy O'Leary"
It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:36:40 EDT
Subject: (which one?) translation question
From:ew C Smith)
I'd say that you can memorize from any translation, but some are easier
than others - which one is easiest for you is something that you'll have
to discover yourself.
The KJV can be easy because it is so unusual: it's to remember unusual
things that you've seen or heard, but difficult to remember the ordinary
things.
But if you're memorizing longer passages, a modern translation can be
easier, because the words "flow" as our words do, not as they used to
"flow" 400 years ago.
I'd suggest that you use a very popular translation (NIV or KJV) which
many people are using - otherwise it gets confusing when you quote or
when you hear other people quote.
But ANY translation can be memorized, so pick which one you like. I think
that theologians call that the "freedom of the Gospel."
*********
This message was sent to you by A.C. Smith
http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/5680
a.c.smithjuno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:12:50 EDT
Subject: Which greek text?
From: DeanMay
In a message dated 98-05-12 23:52:42 EDT, you write:
<< Does it matter if you buy a Camaro, Firebird, Dodge, Lada, Volkswagen as
long as it gets you from point A to point B which is generally what it was
meant to do.? >>
Missing from all the which translation to use discussion is which greek text
to use for a translation? Unfortunately, most Christians are blissfully
ignorant of the raging debate over which text is the most authoritative. In
the last couple of years I have learned enough to be dangerous.
It seems that for centuries there was a group of manuscripts, totaling over
900 parchements, called the textus receptus, or received text. These texts
were looked to as the source for the New Testament and is what Wycliff and
other early translators based their translation on. It is also what the KJV is
based on. Of the 900+ parchements none were complete and some were only
fragments but all were in near universal agreement.
In the mid 1800's the Vatican finally agreed to release their text to the rest
of the world. This text is known as the Vaticanus. It is a complete text and
dates earlier than the Textus Receptus. It also includes the Apocrypha, the
books written between the Old and New Testaments.
Then another text was discovered that also predated the Textus Receptus: the
Siniaticus (sp?)
Solely because these two new texts predated the TR they were given more weight
of authority. Virtually every translating work I've seen that has been done
since then gives more authority two these "earlier" texts- including the NKJV.
Thus when you see in the footnote, "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts
do not include the following verse," it is saying this verse is in the Textus
Receptus but not in the other two. For example, the whole section at the end
of Mark, talking about taking up serpents and speaking in Tongues.
I personally believe the TR to be the more authoritative text. But I continue
to memorize out of the NIV. I just no longer have any confusion when I get the
"earliest manuscripts" footnote. I go with what would have been in the TR
text.
It is my observation that the differences that do exist are very minor. It is
interesting to me that some of the KJV's most ardent supporters who would
fight for the inclusion of the last of Mark 16 really don't believe or
practice what that passage says.
For more info on the importance and authority of the TR see the following web
site:
http://www.chalcedon.edu/report/97jun/s01.htm
Dean May
Terre Haute, IN
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:44:32 -0700
Subject: Re: translation question
From: Drake Mariani
Amen J.R!
Drake
At 5/12/98 08:44 PM, you wrote:
>Hey, God Bless Everyone!
>God is Good!
>I have been a member of this list since way before Christmas, and just
haven't brought myself to contribute until now. But I'd like to make a
point here. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am open to suggestion.
>
>Does it matter if you buy a Camaro, Firebird, Dodge, Lada, Volkswagen as
long as it gets you from point A to point B which is generally what it was
meant to do.?
>Same thing with Bibles, yes you have your Good News Bible, your NIV, KJV,
NASV, NLV, in french, english, spanish, portugiese, hebrew, . . . Everyone
has something that is going to work for them. Now the message is the same
in each of these versions/types isn't it. It is just saying it in a
different way. Now, I feel I'm right to caution anyone from getting too
caught up in figuring out which one is the real mckoy, because if your
doing that you're missing the entire point, which is to grow in a
relationship with God, by His Word.
>I feel I am on the same street as others out there, if not please let me
know.
>Yours In Christ,
>J.R.
>
>
>
>
>>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
>>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
>>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
>>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
>>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
>>version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>>Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Free Brochure
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:42:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Memory
From: Joel Peter Anderson
Scripture memory can be greatly aided by some study of mnemonics in
general - and ALSO, a disciplined practice of Scripture memory will help
you in practicing good memory techniques. I really recommend these two
books (I got them from the library long ago, but Barnes and Nobles still
lists them, so you should be able to get a hold of them)
The Memory Book
Harry Lorayne,Jerry Lucas
This book covers all the basic techniques of mnemonics. If you want one
basic intro to how to memorize (anything!) this is it. Easy to read and
user friendly.
-------------
Your Memory: How It Works & how to Improve It
Kenneth L. Higbee
This book is excellent - it tells you not only the tricks, but the
research that explains WHY these things work. Debunks some of the popular
myths of popularizers, but in no way deprecates the techniques of
memorizing. IT is also valuable for explaining the history of the science
of mnemonics.
** joel anderson * joelants.umn.edu * mrklingonhotmail.com **
**** Hegh tI, 'ej ngab tI naH, 'ach reH taHtaH joH'a'ma' mu'****
**"The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our **
** God stands forever." Isaiah 40.8 NLT** http://umn.edu/~joela **
**http://members.aol.com/JPKlingon/uta: The Universal Translator**
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:34:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Tis a gift to be simple...
From: Joel Peter Anderson
PLEASE! - if you can - send email in plain, simple, text. I am VERY fond
of the web, and use HTML in all kinds of ways (see my Universal Translator
web site if you don't believe me), but HTML is a really crummy way to send
mail.
I *do* use mail readers (at times) that can read it, but generally, when I
see HTML in mail, I get a headache - well not quite, but it is really,
REALLY garbled.
** joel anderson * joelants.umn.edu * mrklingonhotmail.com **
**** Hegh tI, 'ej ngab tI naH, 'ach reH taHtaH joH'a'ma' mu'****
**"The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our **
** God stands forever." Isaiah 40.8 NLT** http://umn.edu/~joela **
**http://members.aol.com/JPKlingon/uta: The Universal Translator**
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 98 12:06:13 EST
Subject: Re[2]: translation question
From:
Hello and God Bless,
My name is Marcia. I am a new member and I would like to respond to
J.R. In your response, you stated that the message is the same in
each of the versions. I don't know if others will agree or not but I
am going to have to disagree with that statement.
For example:
7) For there are there are three that testify: 8) the Spirit, the
water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
(I John 5:7-8, NIV)
&
7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. 8) And there are three that
bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and
these three agree in one. (I John 5:7-8, KJV)
There is a distinct difference between these two translations as far as
this particular passage is concerned. I prefer KJV because you can
"clearly" see what God is saying here. It really does matter which
translation you study and memorize because some of the more modern versions
do not give you the full understanding.
I'm not trying to be critical at all. I just wanted to show you that there
is a difference between translations.
To God be the Glory!
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: translation question
Author: biblememoryMyList.net at NOTE
Date: 5/13/98 9:46 AM
Amen J.R!
Drake
At 5/12/98 08:44 PM, you wrote:
>Hey, God Bless Everyone!
>God is Good!
>I have been a member of this list since way before Christmas, and just
haven't brought myself to contribute until now. But I'd like to make a
point here. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am open to suggestion.
>
>Does it matter if you buy a Camaro, Firebird, Dodge, Lada, Volkswagen as
long as it gets you from point A to point B which is generally what it was
meant to do.?
>Same thing with Bibles, yes you have your Good News Bible, your NIV, KJV,
NASV, NLV, in french, english, spanish, portugiese, hebrew, . . . Everyone
has something that is going to work for them. Now the message is the same
in each of these versions/types isn't it. It is just saying it in a
different way. Now, I feel I'm right to caution anyone from getting too
caught up in figuring out which one is the real mckoy, because if your
doing that you're missing the entire point, which is to grow in a
relationship with God, by His Word.
>I feel I am on the same street as others out there, if not please let me
know.
>Yours In Christ,
>J.R.
>
>
>
>
>>It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
>>been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
>>memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
>>around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
>>Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
>>one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
>>version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>>Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Free Brochure
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:00:16 -0400
Subject: Re: translation question
From:d Chesser)
I would steer clear of memorizing the Living " Bible". It is a
paraphrase of the Scriptures. I use KJV and NKJV as my preferences. NKJV
is the richness of the KJV but without the archaicness that the KJV
contains.
Solo Scriptura,
C. LLoyd Chesser
Micah 6:8 Ministry Website: www.luxscriptura.home.ml.org
===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: translation question
From: "Michael Jackson"
As far as reading and studying the bible is concerned just about any bible is
better than no bible at all -- up to a point, anyway. They all contain the
"Kernels of Truth" and God can make use of even the worst translation. (NOTE:
Watchman Nee in his book "The Normal Christian Life" talks about preaching the
Gospel in obscure villages in mainland China during the early part of this
century and, not having entire bibles to leave behind, would sometimes leave a
book of the bible or even a chapter with the people and would return months
or years later to find that the Lord was saving people based on even this very
limited exposure to the Word. I'm sure the Holy Spirit can work through any
translation of the bible or any portion of the Bible when circumstances require
it.) But for memorizing, I think you need to be circumspect about which
translation you use because what you are "hiding in your heart" is for life and
for all eternity. For example, I think the Good News Bible is an awful
translation and would not recommend it to anyone for the purpose of
memorization.
The New American Standard is the one that I favor but I know others have
different preferences. I guess it's a matter of personal choice and what you
feel comfortable with.
Michael "Not the Gloved One" Jackson
jacksonmgghlaw.com
J. R. Hasson wrote:
> Hey, God Bless Everyone!
> God is Good!
> I have been a member of this list since way before Christmas, and just haven't
brought myself to contribute until now. But I'd like to make a point here.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am open to suggestion.
>
> Does it matter if you buy a Camaro, Firebird, Dodge, Lada, Volkswagen as long
as it gets you from point A to point B which is generally what it was meant to
do.?
> Same thing with Bibles, yes you have your Good News Bible, your NIV, KJV,
NASV, NLV, in french, english, spanish, portugiese, hebrew, . . . Everyone has
something that is going to work for them. Now the message is the same in each
of these versions/types isn't it. It is just saying it in a different way.
Now, I feel I'm right to caution anyone from getting too caught up in figuring
out which one is the real mckoy, because if your doing that you're missing the
entire point, which is to grow in a relationship with God, by His Word.
> I feel I am on the same street as others out there, if not please let me know.
> Yours In Christ,
> J.R.
>
> >It has been so helpful and interesting to get your notes. We have
> >been debating which translation to use as we begin our adventure in
> >memorization as a family. We read NIV and the LB, but KJV has been
> >around so long, and from a literary standpoint it is beautiful.
> >Joel's comment that it is easier to memorize in KJV interests me. Any
> >one else have any comments on the benefits of memorizing a particular
> >version? (Is this an allowable question for this group?) Thanks, Amy
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account
at http://www.eudoramail.com
===============================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:35:49 +0200
Subject: Sv: new member
From: "Lasse Lukka"
Dream: VOLVO
I have been on the list some months now. When I joined the list I shared =
with you guys, that I was hoping to refresh my old TMS (a topically =
arranged list of bibleverses) verses and to start some kind of a =
biblememorygroup in the church where i attend.
Now that sounds good; like when you plan to buy a car you hope to get a =
Volvo or Ford...
Here is an update:
Reality: a LADA? ( a russian built car)
1. I have refreshed some 10 of the old TMS,
2. We have one young man (14) in our church youth - "group"(1 attending) =
whom I have taught the very basics of the gospel by letting him memorize =
the first 2 groups of topics (The Wheel and The Gospel).
3. I have learned a very good verse from... (wait a minute, i have to =
check the reference from my Bible)=20
... ISAIAH. I have used it in situtations where I have felt the =
circumstances have been ... unfavorable.
Like on my way to an appointment about an education opportunity, I was =
hoping to get but was very nervous about the outcome of the interview. =
When i walked to the appointment ( 20 minutes walk) I prayed and =
repeated the verse several and suddenly I received CONFIDENCE in that no =
matter what the outcome would be, Jesus Christ is there and guides me.=20
Here is the verse:
FEAR NOT: (thats a topic I just made up because i know theres =
Naivigators reading this)
ISAIAH 41:10
Fear thou not, for I AM with thee;
be not dismayed, for I AM thy God;=20
I will strengthen thee;
yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of MY righteousness.
ISAIAH 41:10
thank you for your prayers
P.S. I start in the education/ job training sometime next week
Lasse Lukka lukkafampost1.tele.dk
===============================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 05:24:43 EDT
Subject: Good Work!
From:ew C Smith)
Lasse Lukka:
Good Work! It's better to drive a LADA than to walk!
By the way, are you memorizing these verses in English? Your e-mail
address is from Dk, and I wonder if you'd memorize them in that language?
A.C. Smith
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
===============================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:56:58 +0200
Subject: Sv: Good Work!
From: "Lasse Lukka"
A.C. Smith wrote:
>By the way, are you memorizing these verses in English? Your e-mail
>address is from Dk, and I wonder if you'd memorize them in that =
language?
Well, I like memorize most verses in Finnish (mother tongue), some in =
Danish (Wife is a dane) and some older verses i learned in english.
It is a dilemma; if I learn them in Finnish, nobody(here) understands =
them
if in Danish or English, they dont feel so personal...
Lasse Lukka
===============================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:41:01 -0400
Subject: Problems with review may be solved
From: "Stephen Simpson"
Greetings Bible Memory Group,
One of the problems associated with memorizing scripture is that it can take
so much time to review what you already know that you do not have a chance
to progress.
I am in the process of designing a scripture memory system to beat all
scripture memory systems. This one does not require a computer and if it
works, will create a structure in which you can memorize a portion of
scripture even as large as the NT. Interested?
If you memorize a single passage of scripture you have to learn it initially
and then review it once in a while to make sure that you do not forget it.
As time goes on you have to review it less often because you know it better.
If you start to memorize more passages, the amount of time you need to spend
in review increases. Soon you cannot even remember what you have learned.
By the time you get back to reviewing a verse, you wonder if you learned it
at all. At some point it will become unmanageable because the amount of
time you need to spend in review becomes too great.
It is easy to memorize. It is hard to retain it.
I may have a solution to the problem.
Also who can remember verse references?
I may have a solution to the problem.
I am basing it on mental imagery.
I have been spending a lot of time studing the topic of mnemonics. This
means using tricks to remembering things. Some other people on the list have
made reference to such things. For some time I could not figure out how to
apply it to memorization of words, but now I have.
Introduction....
Ie. Every good boy deserves fudge - Notes on the lines of the treble clef
or ROY G. BIV - colours of rainbow.
But a better way of memorizing things is to use association to things you
already know. For example consider the following list.
1. Bun
2. Shoe
3. Tree
4. Door
5. Hive
6. Sticks , Bricks
7. Heaven
8. Crate, Skate
9. Vine , Line
10. Hen
Each word rhymes with the number. This list is easy to memorize. If you
have a list of items you wish to memorize then you could associate each one
with one of the words in the list by imagining the two things interacting
together in your mind. If you later think of 1 then you will think of bun
which will remind you of the think you are memorizing because it is part of
a picture you have imagined. This system also allows you to memorize things
in proper order.
What if this system were expanded by two orders of magnitude? You would have
a system of containers to hold the entire NT.
I think have figured out how to do it.
Consider the following chart of sounds and numbers. This is a system called
the major memory system which was developed many many years ago.
1 T,D,TH
2 N
3 M
4 R
5 I
6 J, CH, SH, SOFT G
7 K, HARD G, NG
8 F,V
9 P,B
0 Z,S
Not Used A E I O U W H Y
(I did not make this scheme up, it is very old)
Using this chart, you can map any number to a word.
eg
1 Sea
2 Hat, Tie
3 Hen,
4 Ham
5 Rye
6 Hill
7 Shoe
8 Cow
9 Ivy
10 Bee
11 Toes
12 Dot
..
..
This can go on forever
I have found a database of english words on the Internet with a phonetic
guide for each word. I wrote a program to generate the number code for each
of 170000 words.
I have divided the NT into 1922 paragraphs. This number has no meaning. It
just turned out like that, and have assigned them each a number from 1 -1000
then again from 1 -922. So each paragraph of the NIV NT has a been assigned
a sequence number.
I can assign each paragraph a word using the above scheme.
PART 2
There are 27 books in the NT. I have assigned each book a letter of the
alphabet to uniquly identify it.
E (E)phesians
F (F)ilippians
H (H)ebrews
I Galatians (Keep your eye (I) on the Gal)
J John (J)ohn
K Mark Mar(k)
L Luke (L)uke
M Matthew (M)atthew
etc
Using the same scheme as above I can create key words for each chapter of
each book. All keywords for chapter identification of Galatians start with
the letter "I". All the keywords for the chapters of LUKE start with "L".
The word when decoded gives you a number representing the chapter. The first
letter tells you the book
also
Use the same scheme to develop a list of 80 words which can be decoded to
the numbers 1 - 80. These represent verse numbers
Put it all together in an example.
Galations chapter 1
7 paragraphs
MiLleD 351) GA 1: 1- 2 Paul, an apostle-sent not para 1
MeLoN 352) GA 1: 3- 5 Grace and peace to you para 2
MyeLoMa 353) GA 1: 6- 9 I am astonished that you para
3
MoLaR 354) GA 1: 10- 10 Am I now trying to para 4
MoleHiLl 355) GA 1: 11- 12 I want you to know para 5
MuLCh 356) GA 1: 13- 17 For you have heard of para 6
MiLK 357) GA 1: 18- 24 Then after three years, I para 7
Chapter 1 = IDEA (light bulb)
VERSE 1 = TIE
etc
For MoLar, think of a giant Molar with arms reaching towards a carrot (good)
on one side and a candy on the other side (Bad) which to chose? This image,
which I have drawn out on paper reminds me of the verse.
A similar image would be constructed for each passage.
Part B
You have to link everything together
In a separate series of images you would create a link index
milled->melon->MyeLoMa->molar->molehill->mulch->milk
Create 6 images containing for components each
milled->melon, TIE (verse), IDEA(chapter)
melon->myeloma, MA (verse), IDEA
myeloma-molar, ACHEW (like a sneeze) (verse), IDEA
etc
Each of these images contain 4 components
1) the first word
2) the second word (the image would contain a picture which moves you from
word one to word two
3) a picture representing the chapter and book
4) a picture representing the verse reference.
A image therefore contains information which will remind you of the next one
EG
Gal 1:1-2
Think of a milled mellon (fashioned into a lamp with a light bulb). The
milling tool is a tie.
Milled - THis passage
Melon - Next passage
light bulb = idea which represents GAL chapter 1
tie = verse 1
As convoluted as this sounds, it has been demonstrated that your brain can
easily hold up to 10000 of these images. You only need about 4000 to build
a structure for the Entire NT
Therefore you cannot forget, which reduces the need for review.
Further, if all the passages you have memorized have a key word then you can
use these images to create strange stories in your mind to memorize
seqences of passages by topic.
I am Crazy, but I believe it will work.
Interested?
Feedback?
I have encoded the book of Galations already into this scheme and find that
works well. By the end of the summer I hope to have the key words chosen for
each of the paragraphs in the NT and will publish a detailed report on my
web site.
Stephen Simpson
ssimpsonistar.ca
http://home.istar.ca/~ssimpson - The Scripture Memory Connection.
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 06:36:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Success!
From: Tamara Carman
thanks for the encouragement, Andrew!
Andrew C Smith wrote:
> I share the following, not to brag, but to offer encouragement: it can be
> done!
>
> I often forget where I put my keys, my wallet, my book, etc., but about
> the time this mailing list started, I set a goal to memorize several
> chapters from the Gospel according to Saint Mark. Well, I've finished
> chapter one!
>
> There are probably others who memorize faster than I do, but I'm happy
> that I made it this far, even at slow speed.
>
> Take heart, if you're considering doing something like this: it CAN be
> done!
>
> *********
>
> This message was sent to you by A.C. Smith
> http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/5680
> a.c.smithjuno.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
--
Tamara Carman
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tamarac/ My Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/2631/ Permian High School
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 06:39:38 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Sunday Bible Study From ZJAM]
From: Tamara Carman
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I just HAD to forward this to the group because I felt it spoke of even
another reason why bible memory can be so important.
This is taken from a daily devotional I get... it's geared towards teens
but I really enjoy it myself (42 yrs here)
-
Tamara Carman
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tamarac/ My Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/2631/ Permian High School
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Subject: Sunday Bible Study From ZJAM
From: zjamedge.net
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WIN A TEN CD LIBRARY FROM ZJAM
It is easy to win, just print this out and give it to your youth pastor! If
your youth pastor books a ZJAM youth rally, you win! If your youth pastor tells
us you where the one to make him or her aware of this youth rally and they book
it, you WIN BIG TIME! Print this out and take it to church tonight!
This summer ZJAM presents the ROCK YOUR WORLD YOUTH RALLY, featuring
Bill Scott and the band Age of Faith! This one night youth rally includes a
full band, lights, sound and Bill Scott speaking on ROCK YOUR WORLD. Don't miss
the chance to book this exciting youth rally. Please print this out and give it
to your youth pastor. Call Lee Roberts at 888-273-2477 for more information. Be
the first in your city to book the ROCK YOUR WORLD YOUTH RALLY!
______________________________________________
ZJAM Bible Study
Sunday, May 10, 1998
Deuteronomy 11:18
Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your
hands and bind them on your foreheads.
Do you know that the FBI has their people study money? That's right they study
money, every little detail of it they know it right side up or backwards. Do
you know why they do this? It is because so when something counterfeit comes
along they can spot it right away. They know the real thing so well that the
counterfeit has a very difficult time getting through. That is the way it
should be with us and Gods Word. If you know it then when you hear something
that contradicts it you cannot be deceived into thinking it's the real thing.
Proverbs 6:23 "For these commands are a lamp, this teaching is a light, and the
corrections of discipline are the way to life."
Extra time in theWord:Deuteronmy 11
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Deuteronomy+11
Prayer requests for today:
Answered prayer:
Whom can I share this with today?
At the end of your devotional time take time to praise God for who He is and for
what He has done in your life. Make sure you thank God for meeting needs in
your life, confess your sins and share with Him your needs for the day. Prayer
is a must when having your devotions. God wants you to talk with Him on a daily
basis.
Please write to us with your prayer requests and praise reports. We would love
to know how the Bible study is working in your life. You can post prayer
requests and praise reports on our new ZJAM Prayer Chain at
mailto:zprayerlistserver.cybercon.com. You can also call our HOPELINE if you
are under 21 and have someone pray with you, talk with you and just be a friend
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weekdays 2-9 CT time and late evenings on Saturday and Sunday. 1-800-394-HOPE.
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===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 06:54:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Tis a gift to be simple...
From: Tamara Carman
Thanks for the reminder. It seems I've been one of the "offenders"
. I hadn't thought to check my email settings and did so when I
read your email... and wouldn't you know it... it was set to send in
HTML format by default. Hopefully I've gotten it corrected... but if
you notice HTML in this email please let me know.
Thanks,
Tamara
Joel Peter Anderson wrote:
>
> PLEASE! - if you can - send email in plain, simple, text. I am VERY fond
> of the web, and use HTML in all kinds of ways (see my Universal Translator
> web site if you don't believe me), but HTML is a really crummy way to send
> mail.
>
> I *do* use mail readers (at times) that can read it, but generally, when I
> see HTML in mail, I get a headache - well not quite, but it is really,
> REALLY garbled.
>
> ** joel anderson * joelants.umn.edu * mrklingonhotmail.com **
> **** Hegh tI, 'ej ngab tI naH, 'ach reH taHtaH joH'a'ma' mu'****
> **"The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our **
> ** God stands forever." Isaiah 40.8 NLT** http://umn.edu/~joela **
> **http://members.aol.com/JPKlingon/uta: The Universal Translator**
--
Tamara Carman
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tamarac/ My Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/2631/ Permian High School
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 06:19:43 -0500
Subject: Re: new member
From: Tamara Carman
Hi Kyle and everyone,
I wanted to share another verse that I feel shares why Bible memory is
important. ... it doesn't actually say memory but it was clear to me. :-)
Romans 1:28
"Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge
of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind to do what ought not to be
done."
That verse really opened up my eyes to the importance of reading and
meditating on God's word, but not only that .... to RETAIN it so I my mind
won't become depraved etc. I'd read the verse many times but it was made
clear to me around March. Hope this verse will be meaningful to some.
Tamara
Kyle Sellers wrote:
> It seems like many people on this list regret that they didnt memorize
> scripture when they were younger. I became a Christian on August 24,
> and I was wondering if it is important to begin learning scripture right
> off the bat? I kind of want to, but I dont know anywhere in the bible
> where it says I should. Would it be alright to put it off till I am out
> of high school and have more free time, or should I get kicking on it
> now?
>
> I would appreciate any input on this matter. Thanks.
>
> Kyle Sellers
--
Tamara Carman
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tamarac/ My Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/2631/ Permian High School
===============================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:20:50 -0400
Subject: Stephen's Research
From:
Stephen,
Your efforts are such an inspiration. I really enjoy your enthusiasm and
optimism with your recent development. The detail you have developed, I
believe is a major ingredient to memorizing the whole bible. And your
development strongly supports what I have tried to explain in past
messages. By that I mean that Bible memory should be fun and that the
brain's memory structures work best when relating new information to
information which is already known, and that the information should be made
visual. The largest portion of brain matter is devoted to visual
processing. And your concept supports the use of the mnemonic alphabet
which has been tried, tested and proven over time to work effectively. In
addition, the rhyming scheme, as I see it, is the third leg of the "three
legged stool".
An element of complexity is inherent in your system. To me that's not a
problem because I know that a mixture of memory tools is needed to create a
powerful memory infrastructure to support memorization of a work as complex
and voluminous as the bible. The added benefit to the individual who
master's a comprehensive memory system (which is what you are presenting)
is this ... that the individual's brain will have acquired a powerful
thought process that works more like a focused laser beam to make a
person's brain capable of performing much better in every area of life due
to a much more efficient and effective use of the grey matter between the
ears. (This is what the school systems should be teaching and never do.)
The total package sounds like it would be fun, highly productive and it all
makes wonderful sense to me. These concepts strongly support each other.
Your work is very encouraging. Keep up the good work.
In order to obtain additional support for your research ... I've mentioned
before that Jerry Lucas, in the early 70's, produced a book called
"Remember the Word" which is based on some of the concepts you described.
This book was almost a success. I wanted that book for my continuing
research. Although I would have liked to have the book, I think you are so
much closer to a viable answer to memorizing the whole bible that you
should have the book. Two of the biblememorylist people acknowledged having
a copy or knowing where a copy of the Lucas book could be found. One person
was Vanderwho aol.com, whose message to me is as follows;
I have a copy of Lucas' REMEMBER THE WORD Volume 1: The Gospels published
by Acton House, Inc. 1888 Century Park East, Los Angeles 90067 in 1975. I
believe it has been out of print and no subsequent volumes were released.
Lucas' ministry was called "Memory Ministries, Inc." and I believe he
lived
in the Fremont, Ca. area in the seventies. The collaborating artist was
Rolland Dingman of Brookdale Ca., and his phone number 20 yrs ago was
408-336-2114. I hope this will be of some help to you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other person was referred to me by Drake Mariani. I used the phone and
the internet to ferret out leads on this book, to no avail. And if any of
the biblememorylist people have any leads on getting this book for you, I'd
appreciate it very much if they would help you get a copy of the book. And
I feel you would be blessed by having it.
Let me suggest this one other idea ... another concept that I know could be
a blessing to many people is the concept of "mind mapping". I'm not
completely certain, but I believe this concept is neither new age nor
non-christian. But sometimes I have seen new age and/or non-christian stuff
presented adjacent to mind mapping concepts. The mind mapping concept is
relatively recent and has been popularized by Tony Buzan. Mind mapping
appeals to people who rely more on the expressive, intuitive, artistic
skills and less on the analytic. Tony has a web site and a book "The Mind
Map Book" describing the concept along with a downloadable version of the
official Mind Mapping software. Use your internet browser and do a simple
search on Tony Buzan, or go to www.buzan.com/tony.html.
Stephen, I'd like to see you study through the mind mapping concept and
evaluate how this concept might be utilized within the context of your new
memorizing system. In fact, if enough people develop an interest in mind
mapping, we could have some fun with a contest of sorts to see who can
generate valuable mind mappings of the bible books that could be included
in your memory system.
Love one another,
Noel
===============================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:58:29 PDT
Subject: Re: Sv: new member
From: "Heather-Dawn Small"
>>From owner-biblememorymylist.net Thu May 14 07:04:28 1998
>Received: from mylist.net (mylist.net [192.41.44.47])
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> for ; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:37:21 +0200
>From: "Lasse Lukka"
>To:
>Subject: Sv: new member
>Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:35:49 +0200
>Message-ID: <01bd7f13$4c70a9c0$LocalHostdefault>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Reply-To: biblememoryMyList.net
>
>Dream: VOLVO
>I have been on the list some months now. When I joined the list I
shared =
>with you guys, that I was hoping to refresh my old TMS (a topically =
>arranged list of bibleverses) verses and to start some kind of a =
>biblememorygroup in the church where i attend.
>Now that sounds good; like when you plan to buy a car you hope to get a
=
>Volvo or Ford...
>Here is an update:
>
>Reality: a LADA? ( a russian built car)
>1. I have refreshed some 10 of the old TMS,
>2. We have one young man (14) in our church youth - "group"(1
attending) =
>whom I have taught the very basics of the gospel by letting him
memorize =
>the first 2 groups of topics (The Wheel and The Gospel).
>3. I have learned a very good verse from... (wait a minute, i have to =
>check the reference from my Bible)=20
>... ISAIAH. I have used it in situtations where I have felt the =
>circumstances have been ... unfavorable.
>Like on my way to an appointment about an education opportunity, I was
=
>hoping to get but was very nervous about the outcome of the interview.
=
>When i walked to the appointment ( 20 minutes walk) I prayed and =
>repeated the verse several and suddenly I received CONFIDENCE in that
no =
>matter what the outcome would be, Jesus Christ is there and guides
me.=20
>
>Here is the verse:
>FEAR NOT: (thats a topic I just made up because i know theres =
>Naivigators reading this)
>ISAIAH 41:10
>Fear thou not, for I AM with thee;
>be not dismayed, for I AM thy God;=20
>I will strengthen thee;
>yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of MY righteousness.
>ISAIAH 41:10
>thank you for your prayers
>
>P.S. I start in the education/ job training sometime next week
>Lasse Lukka lukkafampost1.tele.dk
>
>
>
Dear Lasse Lukka:
I am really interested in your TMS plan. Could you share some more of
it with me. I serve as Women's/Children's Ministries director for my
church and could do with some new methods to get kids excited about
learning the Word. Say, what does TMS mean?
Ernestine
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
===============================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:52:55 +0200
Subject: Sv: Sv: new member
From: "Lasse Lukka"
Heather, thank you for asking!
TMS stands for Topical Memory System. Originally developed by the =
Navigators. It is a collection of carefully selected verses from the =
bible, divided in groups with names easy to remember ( The Gospel, =
Promised Blessings) and Topics with names as Prayer, Word, Obedience, =
Joy ...
TMS is not specially designed for children or youth, but God can use =
anything if we pray.=20
I looked in the archives of biblememorylist ( =
http://home.istar.ca/~ssimpson/archives.shtml )
Jan -98. Here is a quote from JAMES LONG explaining about TMS and how =
you can use it more effectively (and like he says; respond to him IN =
PERSON if you want to order TMS):
" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:48:26 -0500 =
=20
Subject: Navigator TMS =
=20
From: James Long =
jan98\NAVIGA~1.EML =20
"... Lasse Lukka mentioned the Navigator TMS of the late 1970's. The =
current Nav
TMS is not the "original" 108 passages that Lasse referred to. Since =
this
original is so nice I have put it in a MS Word 97 table that prints out
very nice on card stock. I then cut up the card stock and laminate the
cards. These are excellent. I would be more than happy to e-mail this to
those who are interested. For a small fee ($20 US) I can print these on
card stock, laminate them and mail them to you. The fee is just to cover
the cost of printing, laminating, etc.
One of my visions to help myself and others is to take this TMS and =
create
picture images for each verse. This is much like the company Memlock
http://www.memlock.com/ does with their verses. I had pictures for =
almost
half of the verses and then a computer crash (I now back up often) cost =
me
the whole thing. I would be interested in working with some people who
would like to assign pictures to the TMS.
Respond in person, not to the list, if you are interested in either the
"old school" TMS or the project of putting word pictures with the TMS =
(108
verse version).
James " =20
Lasse Lukka
lukkafampost1.tele.dk =20
===============================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:31:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: new member
From: Drake Mariani
--=====================_11597049==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Here's my response to a comparison of the Topical Memory System and
Memlok...sorry it's in html language. I just copied it from my webpage. I
also
praise God forf Hal Jensen's (THE NAVIGATORS) quote on my brochure. "I've
looked at many Bible memory systems over the last 25 years and Memlok is the
best I've seen."
Note, PC Memlok has come out since that and the free reproduction of the pics
is perfect for churches. Also, 62 of the 65 verses in the TMS are in it.
Hope this helps!
Warmly,
Drake
5. How
would you compare MEMLOK with THE NAVIGATOR's
Topical
Memory System?
The "TMS" is awesome. I am a trained leader of THE NAVIGATOR's
Colossian
2:7 Course and have led it many times. I would recommend any adult (even
teen)
believer go through at least 3 of the 6 three month courses. Your leader must
be trained
by THE NAVIGATORS in the 5 courses beyond the introductory "Growing
Strong in
God's Family" The 65 verses (5 Assurance verses and 5 topics of 12) are a
solid
foundation. You can do it first, or at the same time you do MEMLOK. Sixty-two
of the 65
TMS verses are in MEMLOK, so the two work together well.
The differences are:
- 48 topics in MEMLOK vs. 5 in the TMS. (There is life after the
2:7.)
- MEMLOK is a flip card system forcing both rote and recall (see
remembering the references).
- You select the verse you want each week in MEMLOK. You go in order
1-65
in the TMS.
- MEMLOK comes one version at a time. The TMS has another version on the
backside.
- TMS cards are smaller in size and print than MEMLOK's business card.
- The TMS as used in the 2:7 course at times requires 2 cards/week,
then 6
weeks of no new cards while you review (or catch up). MEMLOK is always only
one
card per week.
At 5/23/98 08:52 AM, you wrote:
>Heather, thank you for asking!
>
>TMS stands for Topical Memory System. Originally developed by the Navigators.
It is a collection of carefully selected verses from the bible, divided in
groups with names easy to remember ( The Gospel, Promised Blessings) and
Topics
with names as Prayer, Word, Obedience, Joy ...
>
>TMS is not specially designed for children or youth, but God can use anything
if we pray.
>
>I looked in the archives of biblememorylist (
http://home.istar.ca/~ssimpson/archives.shtml )
>Jan -98. Here is a quote from JAMES LONG explaining about TMS and how you can
use it more effectively (and like he says; respond to him IN PERSON if you
want
to order TMS):
>
>" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:48:26
-0500
>Subject: Navigator
TMS
>From: James Long
jan98\NAVIGA~1.EML
>
>"... Lasse Lukka mentioned the Navigator TMS of the late 1970's. The current
Nav
>TMS is not the "original" 108 passages that Lasse referred to. Since this
>original is so nice I have put it in a MS Word 97 table that prints out
>very nice on card stock. I then cut up the card stock and laminate the
>cards. These are excellent. I would be more than happy to e-mail this to
>those who are interested. For a small fee ($20 US) I can print these on
>card stock, laminate them and mail them to you. The fee is just to cover
>the cost of printing, laminating, etc.
>One of my visions to help myself and others is to take this TMS and create
>picture images for each verse. This is much like the company Memlock
>http://www.memlock.com/ does with their verses. I had pictures for almost
>half of the verses and then a computer crash (I now back up often) cost me
>the whole thing. I would be interested in working with some people who
>would like to assign pictures to the TMS.
>
>Respond in person, not to the list, if you are interested in either the
>"old school" TMS or the project of putting word pictures with the TMS (108
>verse version).
>James "
>
>Lasse Lukka
>lukkafampost1.tele.dk
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Free Brochure
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
--=====================_11597049==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Here's my response to a comparison of the Topical
Memory System and Memlok...sorry it's in html language. I just copied it
from my webpage. I also praise God forf Hal Jensen's (THE
NAVIGATORS) quote on my brochure. "I've looked at many Bible memory
systems over the last 25 years and Memlok is the best I've
seen."
Note, PC Memlok has come out since that and the free reproduction
of the pics is perfect for churches. Also, 62 of the 65 verses in the TMS
are in it.
Hope this helps!
Warmly,
Drake
<B><FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#ffffff"
FACE="arial">5. <a
name="anchor_5"></a>How would you compare
MEMLOK with <A HREF="recommen.htm">THE
NAVIGATOR's</A> Topical
Memory System?</FONT></B>
<BR>
<p><B>The "TMS" is awesome. I am a trained leader
of</B> <B>THE NAVIGATOR's Colossian
2:7 Course</B> and have led it many times. I would recommend any
adult (even teen)
believer go through at least 3 of the 6 three month courses. Your leader
must be trained
by <B>THE NAVIGATORS</B> in the 5 courses beyond the
introductory "Growing Strong in
God's Family" The 65 verses (5 Assurance verses and 5 topics of 12)
are a solid
foundation. You can do it first, or at the same time you do MEMLOK.
Sixty-two of the 65
TMS verses are in MEMLOK, so the two work together well.<BR>
<p><B>The differences are:</B>
<UL COMPACT><LI>48 topics in MEMLOK vs. 5 in the TMS. (There
is life after the 2:7.)
<LI> MEMLOK is a flip card
system forcing both rote and recall (see remembering the
references).
<LI> You select the verse you
want each week in MEMLOK. You go in order 1-65 in the TMS.
<LI> MEMLOK comes one version
at a time. The TMS has another version on the backside.
<LI> TMS cards are smaller in
size and print than MEMLOK's business card.
<LI> The TMS as used in the
2:7 course at times requires 2 cards/week, then 6 weeks of no new cards
while you review (or catch up). MEMLOK is always only one card per
week.</UL>
At 5/23/98 08:52 AM, you wrote:
>Heather, thank you for asking!
>
>TMS stands for Topical Memory System. Originally developed by the
Navigators. It is a collection of carefully selected verses from the
bible, divided in groups with names easy to remember ( The Gospel,
Promised Blessings) and Topics with names as Prayer, Word, Obedience, Joy
...
>
>TMS is not specially designed for children or youth, but God can use
anything if we pray.
>
>I looked in the archives of biblememorylist (
http://home.istar.ca/~ssimpson/archives.shtml
)
>Jan -98. Here is a quote from JAMES LONG explaining about TMS and how you
can use it more effectively (and like he says; respond to him IN PERSON if you
want to order TMS):
>
>" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:48:26
-0500 &nb
sp;
; &
nbsp;
>Subject: Navigator
TMS
; &
nbsp; &nb
sp;
;
>From: James Long
<jdlong00pop.uky.edu> &nbs
p;
&n
bsp;
jan98\NAVIGA~1.EML &n
bsp;
>
>"... Lasse Lukka mentioned the Navigator TMS of the late 1970's. The
current Nav
>TMS is not the "original" 108 passages that Lasse referred to.
Since this
>original is so nice I have put it in a MS Word 97 table that prints out
>very nice on card stock. I then cut up the card stock and laminate the
>cards. These are excellent. I would be more than happy to e-mail this to
>those who are interested. For a small fee ($20 US) I can print these on
>card stock, laminate them and mail them to you. The fee is just to cover
>the cost of printing, laminating, etc.
>One of my visions to help myself and others is to take this TMS and
create
>picture images for each verse. This is much like the company Memlock
>http://www.memlock.com/ does with their verses. I had
pictures for almost
>half of the verses and then a computer crash (I now back up often) cost
me
>the whole thing. I would be interested in working with some people who
>would like to assign pictures to the TMS.
>
>Respond in person, not to the list, if you are interested in either the
>"old school" TMS or the project of putting word pictures with the
TMS (108
>verse version).
>James
"
>
>Lasse Lukka
>lukkafampost1.tele.dk
>
Drake Mariani memlokpacbell.net 800-373-1947
Memlok/PC Memlok Bible Memory System
NIV NKJ KJV NAS 700 Verses 48 Topics
Tons of Free Stuff & 15 Free Scripture Memory Tips
Ask me how to get "Cyber Patrol Net Blocker" FREE
--=====================_11597049==_.ALT--
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:38:47 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Biblememory: Conversation Starter
From: CDR Charlene Woodard
I started the Memlock program 2-3 months ago. Have not missed a day and =
enjoy it. Every morning I do my prayer journal and then the Memlock prog=
ram. It only takes five minutes for reviewing the verses, and easy way =
to update and keep yourself in the swing of it.
Try it.
Peace,
Charlene
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:38:41 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Biblememory: Conversation Starter
From: "Jeanne"
I struggle big time so I too would appreciate any hints others offer
in this area
Jeanne
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:52:23 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Biblememory: Conversation Starter
From: Eckhart Diestel
------------------ Reply Separator --------------------
Originally From: "Stephen Simpson"
Subject: Biblememory: Conversation Starter
Date: 05/31/98 01:24pm
Greetings,
There are now 117 persons subscribing to the biblememory mailing list.
Recently, there has been very little activity on the list so I thought I
would send off a message in the hopes that it would start a conversation
going.
But first a quick administrative message: Up until now I have not been
moderating the conversations on the list. This means that a message sent to
the list would be immediately sent to the entire group regardless of the
content of the message. I have now changed this so that I will have the
opportunity to browse each message before it goes out. The only down side
to this is that it may take 12 or so hours before your message is delivered
to the list members. The advantage, of course is that I can prevent people
who hate the word of God from sending nasty messages to the people on the
mailing list. I know that there are people who would deliberately send
offensive materials to groups of Christians and I want to see to it that it
does not happen here.
Anyway, I have something that you can perhaps help me with. I am a busy
person. I have a two small children, a wife, a job, a ministry and a house,
all of which demand attention. But it is also a priority for me to spend as
much time studying and learning the word of God. Memorization is important
to me. But it is very hard to remain constant from day to day. I may have
success for a month or so in spending time each day memorizing or reviewing,
but then something happens which takes me away from it for a few days.
After this I find it takes a week or two to get back into it. The result of
this is that perhaps 25 or 30% of the days just go by without me spending
any time on memorization or review or meditation. This in the long run adds
up to a lot of time.
My question is this: Do you struggle with consistency? and What do you do
to maintain consistency?
Stephen Simpson
ssimpsonistar.ca
dear stephen
thanks for your open letter.
my opinion : you need to form a group that meets regularly/weekly
the members of the group must " mentor " each other, including
personal confession.
if you dedicate yourself to a biblestudy it is sinful not to fulfill your
promise - that's why confession
i think an ongoing study - an entire book - demands a different approach and
more serious comitment
our group struggles , however, from the above - to an extent that you find
yourself easily alone. neither the study , nor the confession is exercised -
but can you take such people serious ?
we started matthew and are at chapter 5 now
eckhart
===============================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:24:49 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Biblememory: Conversation Starter
From: "Stephen Simpson"
Greetings,
There are now 117 persons subscribing to the biblememory mailing list.
Recently, there has been very little activity on the list so I thought I
would send off a message in the hopes that it would start a conversation
going.
But first a quick administrative message: Up until now I have not been
moderating the conversations on the list. This means that a message sent to
the list would be immediately sent to the entire group regardless of the
content of the message. I have now changed this so that I will have the
opportunity to browse each message before it goes out. The only down side
to this is that it may take 12 or so hours before your message is delivered
to the list members. The advantage, of course is that I can prevent people
who hate the word of God from sending nasty messages to the people on the
mailing list. I know that there are people who would deliberately send
offensive materials to groups of Christians and I want to see to it that it
does not happen here.
Anyway, I have something that you can perhaps help me with. I am a busy
person. I have a two small children, a wife, a job, a ministry and a house,
all of which demand attention. But it is also a priority for me to spend as
much time studying and learning the word of God. Memorization is important
to me. But it is very hard to remain constant from day to day. I may have
success for a month or so in spending time each day memorizing or reviewing,
but then something happens which takes me away from it for a few days.
After this I find it takes a week or two to get back into it. The result of
this is that perhaps 25 or 30% of the days just go by without me spending
any time on memorization or review or meditation. This in the long run adds
up to a lot of time.
My question is this: Do you struggle with consistency? and What do you do
to maintain consistency?
Stephen Simpson
ssimpsonistar.ca
===============================================================================